[WhatAboutMe]

hiddepalm are you serious...
damn the media....the only thing i hear on tv and newspapers is that assad is a dictator...but i know better... he is my president, he is the president of the syrian people(who love him99% of the people that is).

america is one hell of a great actor, i tell you that.

[★★★★★]

hiddepalm are you serious...
damn the media....the only thing i hear on tv and newspapers is that assad is a dictator...but i know better... he is my president, he is the president of the syrian people(who love him99% of the people that is).

america is one hell of a great actor, i tell you that.

There was a recent constitutional referendum in Syria following which the government announced 89% of voters approved it. The claim of 99% of any country's constituency supporting their leader is impossible. Even an extremely popular leader would never reach 99% support, much less Assad, who as an Alawite is in the minority, and given the country is now divided along sectarian lines is hated by the Sunni majority. A president, by definition, is democratically elected and can be democratically unseated. Even if we ignore all indicators from all sides showing that political opposition is stifled, the mere time frame of rule proves the nonexistence of democracy. A father to son dynasty spanning 42 years is not democracy. If you want to continue this debate you will have to address Assad as an authoritarian leader, you can say he is a benevolent dictator, that is another topic, but calling him a president reveals a severe lack of understanding of what a president is on your part.

Hiddepalm, you still seem unable to answer my question, is the earth round? Your idiocy remains a beacon of why the zionist-mason-alien conspiracy, against which you so fervently argue, should be encouraged to exist.

[XVI]

"The country is governed by a one-party state without free elections."
They want to have Presidential elections, Parliament elections and change the constitution. They even want the opposition to run in it. SO the answer is YES the country is governed by a one-party state without free elections

"Freedom of expression, association and assembly are strictly controlled."
Not exactly. Reporters are allowed to walk wherever they want, when they want. But things may have changed since the battle of Homs. But yes reporters have to sign in, kinda like reporters need a press pass in the States. But I am sure there is truth in your sentence, just not the way you have been informed, I assume from corporate media.
Not exactly?...It is or is isn't. I'll take it as a YES

"Women and ethnic minorities face discrimination."
Where did you hear this?
From various news report and media, so females and minor groups are treated 100% equal?

"Syria's human rights situation had become one of the worst in the world."
It is being argued very well that the civilian deaths prior to the battle of homs were mostly fabricated. Assad admitted to coming down hard on protestors and that the military officers involved have been suspended. The battle of homs is a different story. Assad is not a saint, but I am arguing he was pushed into this war. And even so, allot of the "shelling" footage was also fabricated. Many of the scenes were not even in Syria! Crazy right?
Um....Since 1963, emergency rule has remained in effect which gives security forces sweeping powers of arrest and detention.
I think that alone answers that

"Democracy should be a right for every human being."
I agree. Thus we should let Syria hold its elections and stop arming the paramilitaries. Why wouldnt you agree to that?
So....why isn't it happening right now?

"People should be able to walk down their streets without fear of being killed by snipers or secret police."
I agree. Those snipers are not Assad's though. This is classic paramilitary behavior. We saw this in Mexico, Colombia and Peru during the 80's and 90's, where paramilitary groups would murder civilians and blame the guerrillas. Plenty of news stations outside of US influence have exposed who these snipers are. But for some reason ... you lack access to the outside world? Is that true? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just hinting that if you want to know about something you have to look outside the US corporate media curtain.
Im not from the USA. The US corporate media curtain does not exists in my country. But seriously dude. Snipers in streets do not happen in my country, we have police and army sworned to protect us from that. If it did happen, our Special Ops would take em all out. And our President wouldn't stand by and let the people just get murdered in the streets. What has your President done to keep the people safe? Nothing?

Code: Select allPeople want elections in Syria, plain and simple. Assad even wanted to opposition to run in it, according to his interview with Barbara Walters,

So what are they waiting for?
Assad should simply be able to make it happen, since he is the President.

[WhatAboutMe]

@XVI

You are the perfect example of american Indoctrination,
Damn the americans are using the most dangerous weapon out there, The News

I won't say Bashar is not killing people, he is Not killing Innocent people.
Serious what would you do, when a couple of terrorists kill innocent people and blame it on you, making fake videos etc.
Syria has all the rights to kill the terrorists, it is just the news saying innocent people.

The perfect example is irak, I saw it on the news when they left irak,
Soldiers saying they introduced peace there. And that was the last thing i heard about irak.
worldwide people are thinking iraki people are living in peace, but nothing is more true.
(America fu*ked irak in the A**)

Mark my words, Bashar will stay president, and no one who can do anything about it.

WhatAboutMe, I think you should try to understand youre talking to people who are seeing one side of the story and not looking into the other side of the story to get a full picture. Everyone means well .... except for stars, He's just trolling, shell shocked from the religious dogma of his small town, poor little guy. The world is being carried by a giant turtle.

"Im not from the USA. The US corporate media curtain does not exists in my country. But seriously dude. Snipers in streets do not happen in my country, we have police and army sworned to protect us from that. If it did happen, our Special Ops would take em all out. And our President wouldn't stand by and let the people just get murdered in the streets. What has your President done to keep the people safe? Nothing?" - XVI

Dont be so sure about that, lol! The US media even runs AlJazeera ... BBC is under our spell as well. So is the Muslim brotherhood. About the snipers, that's precisely why Assad started going in on Homs, to engage with these paramilitaries. I saw a video of Assad supporters pointing out the snipers. There is a battle in a civilian city, of course many are getting killed, and we both agree its not right. You have to understand it took Assad almost a year to finally act and admit he is in a war. It took so long, the Syrian military started acting on its own, over 2000 of them died since March 2011, probably much more now. The people of Homs been demanding exactly that, "our President wouldn't stand by and let the people just get murdered in the streets.". Assad got manipulated into this battle by foreign countries arming and sending in paramilitary troops into Homs. It is planned out and orchestrated to be this way.

About what my President has done to keep my people safe? .... man I really despise Obama. Before he stole the elections with all of the corporate backing, he agreed with the Sean Bell verdict which was a disrespect to all us New Yorkers. He hasn't gone down on any of the police shootings and beatings of civilians in my country. From Waco to New Orleans to Wall Street our civilians have been violently attacked by our police and military forces. Now congress wants to fly 50,000 drones in our country. At the border, US paramilitary troops are murdering and raping Mexicans crossing the border without any type of restriction. Just recently it was revealed the White House took our tax money to give the NYPD, to spy on Muslims in my city. Many of them fellow students. We have the biggest prison population in the world where prisoners get tortured and put away in solitary confinement indefinitely. Obama's acceptance and revision of the Patriot Act basically takes all rights away from anyone they deem deserves it. They bombed our own citizen in Yemen - who does that? Every day 120 people die from lack of healthcare. Every 20 minutes a US veteran is committing suicide. I could go on, on how much of a prick my President is in terms of people dying here.

"So what are they waiting for?
Assad should simply be able to make it happen, since he is the President." - XVI

WhatAboutme ... Can You answer this one. I know Assad wants to have Presidential elections by 2013, right after the Parliamentary elections. But Im not sure when are the Parliamentary elections supposed to happen or if they recently happened. I could ask around, but you should know this. Also the Constitution is going to be changed to make this happen, can you elaborate more on that. Also WhatAboutMe, please stop misusing the word America, manifest destiny died over a decade ago and we Latin@s find that disrespectful. And keep in mind it us Latin Americans who support Assad's move to have Presidential elections and for foreign countries to stop escalating thew violence by sending in weapons. America has never been a country, there is no such thing. When you say America, realize you are talking about an entire half of Planet Earth. Anyways, any input on when the Parliamentary elections are supposed to happen would be appreciated. I live behind the US curtain, so such information is pretty much restricted and forbidden in the corporate airwaves. And I can't keep bugging the journalists Im connected to every day, lol! But, whats up with you saying "Assad will stay President and there isnt anything anyone can do"? Assad himself wants elections. He claims he was thrown into the Presidency because of his father, and wants out.

On another note ....

An interesting point on one of the reporters recently killed in the battle of Homs. Marie Colvin who I am sure everyone has heard of by now, the woman with the eye patch. I just read an article she wrote before my country invaded Iraq. She claimed Hussein had an atom bomb! WTF!!??!?!!! She was basically helping the Bush administration lie about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction. This is just an example of how this is all being played out on TV and how the war propaganda has evolved. This Syrian situation is the most elaborate war propaganda I had ever seen in my life. And I have been protesting against war since the very first protest in NY.

She also lied about Libya. ... and people, I know this is a heated debate we're having here, allot of emotions being thrown around. But keep in mind the death toll in Iraq has still not ended. Black Africans are being murdered and caged in Libya as we speak, it's a horrendous catastrophe. We're destroying entire civilizations and never looking back.

The corporate media made her out to be like one of my fellow activists, but she's the opposite. She's a war propagandist.

One last thing for XVI. I know youre trying to argue that there is a lack of democracy in Syria. Im not debating with you on that point. Like I said, Im not pro-Assad, Im anti-US/NATO invasion. My points are that Assad is being manipulated into war, and there is allot of lying going on in corporate media, which is very dangerous and could lead to unimaginable death, let alone it being disrespectful to the actual deaths and casualties. The death toll in Libya is 260,000. Iraq in the millions. Afghanistan as well. Pakistan is protesting every day against our bombings, another thing we dont get to see on TV. I don't want my country to bomb Syria. As a United Statesian I am sick and tired of throwing our quality of life away to bomb foreign countries, nobody in our populace ever thinks about. Syria never called me a spic. Think about it ... you said you dont live in the USA. So then, who exactly are you to say my country should bomb another country? What corporate media is making you think that it is ok for you to think in this way? Its my family that has to pay for that through budget cuts and taxes, and it is a Syrian family that has to suffer brutally for it. Where in this picture does your family come in? Let them have their elections. Let Syria work Syria out. Peace.

[kareem]

@XVI

You are the perfect example of american Indoctrination,
Damn the americans are using the most dangerous weapon out there, The News

I won't say Bashar is not killing people, he is Not killing Innocent people.
Serious what would you do, when a couple of terrorists kill innocent people and blame it on you, making fake videos etc.
Syria has all the rights to kill the terrorists, it is just the news saying innocent people.

The perfect example is irak, I saw it on the news when they left irak,
Soldiers saying they introduced peace there. And that was the last thing i heard about irak.
worldwide people are thinking iraki people are living in peace, but nothing is more true.
(America fu*ked irak in the A**)

Mark my words, Bashar will stay president, and no one who can do anything about it.

Ugh, I feel like I go in circles with you but here it goes...

You CAN'T be deemed as a terrorist when you DON'T possess weapons. The FSA has yet to be militarized. The only weaponry they have comes from the people who have defected from the regime to the FSA. Also, you don't supposed that kids know how to use weaponry? Women too? There's been about 1000 killed women and children, out of the 9400.

The only half decent argument you present is the danger of imperialism--all your other arguments are utter garbage.

I will put every single thing I own that he will not stay as a despot. History is on my side

[XVI]

There's always 2 sides of a story.
The one I hear.
The one the other person hears.

Whats interesting is that the 5000+ Syrians living in my country.
They started coming here in 1891 when Syria included the semi-autonomous district of Lebanon, and was part of the Turkish-controlled Ottoman Empire
They was only 100 of them. Why did they come? Because Christians were being persecuted by the Ottomans.
After World War II the Syria-born population significantly. The population increased further during the 1970s and 1980s, during a period of regional military conflict and insurgency against the government.

SO for 130 years we have had a slow and steady stream of Syrians leaving their homeland, and moving to my country.
Why would they leave in the first place if their government and country was so great?

You CAN'T be deemed as a terrorist when you DON'T possess weapons. The FSA has yet to be militarized. The only weaponry they have comes from the people who have defected from the regime to the FSA. Also, you don't supposed that kids know how to use weaponry? Women too? There's been about 1000 killed women and children, out of the 9400.

The only half decent argument you present is the danger of imperialism--all your other arguments are utter garbage.

I will put every single thing I own that he will not stay as a despot. History is on my side

The FSA paramilitaries have been armed by outside forces for over a year. And they came into the country armed. 7 countries in Latin America had to come together and demand an end to that. Are they crazy? Or is someone misinformed? And if you are misinformed, I would like to know EXACTLY who misinformed you. Im really interested in this, as Im following up on these journalists on both sides. What are your thoughts on what I said about Marie Colvin?

So if the FSA has yet to be militarized, I assume the over 2000 dead Syrian soldiers died from protestors?! And before you say they were defectors killed by their own military, understand that is bullshit. The footage of the funerals of the dead Syrian soldiers are obviously not anti-Assad NATO supporters. And their families are always on TV speaking out against the war-propagandists that their loved one was not a defector but was assassinated by "terrorists".

Whats interesting is that the 5000+ Syrians living in my country.
They started coming here in 1891 when Syria included the semi-autonomous district of Lebanon, and was part of the Turkish-controlled Ottoman Empire
They was only 100 of them. Why did they come? Because Christians were being persecuted by the Ottomans.
After World War II the Syria-born population significantly. The population increased further during the 1970s and 1980s, during a period of regional military conflict and insurgency against the government.

So for 130 years we have had a slow and steady stream of Syrians leaving their homeland, and moving to my country.
Why would they leave in the first place if their government and country was so great?

There are allot of beautiful women in support of Assad. lol!

XVI, let's look at the death toll. I mean let's really look at this. Please, I beg you to read this article. You said 9,000 deaths .... We are talking about human life here. I want to know what your thoughts are after reading this detailed look at the death count. Let me know what you think about it. And then look back at where you got the numbers you posted and find out where they got the sources. IF YOU WANT ... give me the articles you got your numbers and I will check their sources for you and come back here and share those with you. I know you mean well, but truth is truth and lies are lies. Im willing to find the truth together with you. But first read this article. Don't worry the writer is not an Assad supporter, but is also not gullible to the war-propagandist media.

Questioning the Syrian “Casualty List”
http://lizzie-phelan.blogspot.com/2012/ ... -list.html

[kareem]

You CAN'T be deemed as a terrorist when you DON'T possess weapons. The FSA has yet to be militarized. The only weaponry they have comes from the people who have defected from the regime to the FSA. Also, you don't supposed that kids know how to use weaponry? Women too? There's been about 1000 killed women and children, out of the 9400.

The only half decent argument you present is the danger of imperialism--all your other arguments are utter garbage.

I will put every single thing I own that he will not stay as a despot. History is on my side

The FSA paramilitaries have been armed by outside forces for over a year. And they came into the country armed. 7 countries in Latin America had to come together and demand an end to that. Are they crazy? Or is someone misinformed? And if you are misinformed, I would like to know EXACTLY who misinformed you. Im really interested in this, as Im following up on these journalists on both sides. What are your thoughts on what I said about Marie Colvin?

So if the FSA has yet to be militarized, I assume the over 2000 dead Syrian soldiers died from protestors?! And before you say they were defectors killed by their own military, understand that is bullshit. The footage of the funerals of the dead Syrian soldiers are obviously not anti-Assad NATO supporters. And their families are always on TV speaking out against the war-propagandists that their loved one was not a defector but was assassinated by "terrorists".

So how do you suppose the acquisition of weapons came to be? It certainly didn't poof out of nowhere. Nothing has been smuggled yet. Several countries have decided against militarizing the FSA, so who exactly are these "outside forces" that you speak of? It doesn't matter where I heard the information because you're going to debunk it, regardless of who it may be.

According to many, the amount of defectors would increase if these people knew that their families would be safe. Once they see the outcome of other defectors, they're scared out of their minds (from what Bashar's thugs would do).

Two things, I am not XVI and second, where are you from?

[raidmaster007]

I had to join in this argument it was just getting too interesting. Explain to me how a government and society which are almost entirely shiite allawi is anything close to democratic. The sunni population has been treated like lower class for years. And about Iraq - that was pretty messed up to begin with Saddam Hussein killed millions, he was a complete mad man and this is not American propaganda. The imaginary country of Iraq was created by a bunch of British and French planners who had a lot of fun carving up the middle east. They put 3 ethnic groups in direct competition with each other so that they would be easier to govern. Blaming Iraq on America is easy but is not supported by the facts. Also about the famous no WMD argument i never quite got that - Hussein used them in the 70's and it supposedly costs only 500 grand to start a biological weapons program - there are really poor african countries that are doing it. Coming from a man who was offering loads of cash to anyone who would suicide bomb Israel why wouldn't he have those weapons? If the US would have found just a couple or at least found the labs they were made in I would have said yes Bush lied it was all a hoax. But they found "nothing" - that i don't believe and no one with an ounce of brains and a knowledge of history should believe that either. Although getting back to Syria I dont think Assad could call for elections even if he wanted to as there is no way the military and the elites would let him - there is no way the Allawhites are interested in giving up power.

[★★★★★]

Time to renew this topic. Have anyone's views changed?

[zackddog]

Nope, nothing's changed, other than the inner circle getting bombed two days ago and Bashar al-Assad's brother-in law and Defense Minister getting killed a few hours ago.

My question is still the same: Who benefits from overthrowing al-Assad and turning Syria into another Sunni-Shia battleground.

Cui bono. as a benefit to whom.

[kareem]

Nope, nothing's changed, other than the inner circle getting bombed two days ago and Bashar al-Assad's brother-in law and Defense Minister getting killed a few hours ago.

My question is still the same: Who benefits from overthrowing al-Assad and turning Syria into another Sunni-Shia battleground.

Cui bono. as a benefit to whom.

This is a huge misconception about the revolution that's going on--it's not a religious war. Also, the percent of shiites in Syria is quite small compared to Christians and Alawites. If you watch the news, it's quite apparent that the governmental army largely consists of Alawites.

To answer your question, I won't say that everybody will benefit (because the Alawites that side with Bashar obviously won't since they are likely to be persecuted once he is overthrown), but the majority of the Syrian population will.

It's really only a matter of time before the regime is overthrown--the same question remains though: at the sake of how many deaths?

[WhatAboutMe]

It's really only a matter of time before the regime is overthrown--the same question remains though: at the sake of how many deaths?

HAHAHAHAhhhahahahahhahahahahhaha ahahahah ahah ah
ahahah ah ah ha h
ah ahah
ahahha
hahah
hah

I bet you 2000 WRZ, for lets say half a year,
that the BASHAAR will remain president.
(so if bashar stays within now and 22 januarie 2012 i get 2000 wrz, otherwise you got 2000 wrz from me)

[kareem]

It's really only a matter of time before the regime is overthrown--the same question remains though: at the sake of how many deaths?

HAHAHAHAhhhahahahahhahahahahhaha ahahahah ahah ah
ahahah ah ah ha h
ah ahah
ahahha
hahah
hah

I bet you 2000 WRZ, for lets say half a year,
that the BASHAAR will remain president.
(so if bashar stays within now and 22 januarie 2012 i get 2000 wrz, otherwise you got 2000 wrz from me)

I'll put 3000WRZ$ on it. I seriously think you're a little twisted up there or just extremely naive. You have a war criminal as your avatar and support one of the most brutal dictators ever seen on the face of this earth.