[Bohica60]

It is really getting to be a pain in the butt lately with the way the quality of posts here are going downhill fast. It seems like some people just get a membership here so that they can start what I call "slam posting.' They just post whatever they want, however they want, whereever they want, irregardless of whether it has already been posted or not. As fast as they can possibly post them.

There ARE rules in place on HOW to go about setting up a release. It really doesn't matter though, since these people either can't or won't read them!

I have seen (several times) where someone signs up and the very first thing they start doing is spewing these 'release posts' out. 'Posts' that follow no guidelines other than however they feel like setting them up. Pics followed by the wording all centered to the middle of the page, etc., just to give an example. Or, obviously, no search being done prior to posting as their 'post' has already been released. A fact that would have been obvious with even the most cursory of searches.

Someone mentioned a mandatory waiting period for new members, say something along the lines of "You must have (insert number here) posts before you can start posting here", or possibly, being a 'VIP' member first.

As much as I dislike that sort of thing, I'm starting to agree that it might be a good idea too. The first part, that is.

Being a 'VIP' member first is not going to do anything to remedy this. You would just have a bunch of people who STILL don't know HOW to post, but now believe they are 'entitled' to post however they please, BECAUSE they are a 'VIP' member.

And for the benefit of those who don't already know or the ones too lazy to look first, here are the guidelines I was referring to earlier:

READ BEFORE POSTING: How to post a release

BEFORE you post a book release!

A thorough read of these before posting (and following the instructions in them) would go a long way towards improving the quality of the posts here!

Just my 0.02, YMMV

[hmorphone]

If there were a posting limit, say 5 releases per day, that might work. It would also penalize legit posters. The biggest thing is for the Mods to step in. If the posts don't meet the guidelines they can be deleted and the user warned, then banned if they don't comply. This will conflict at times with the compassion that they treat new posters with, those that need a few nudges to get the process right. I am one of those users as I'm not going to post releases here until I understand the process well enough to do it as right as possible. And it would be nigh impossible to set someone up to judge which books are worthy of posting and which aren't. One mans trash is another mans treasure. That's not to say I like having to sort through a batch of old romances that didn't cut the mustard even when they were first released to find your releases. One possible cause of this is the restriction here of only allowing a title to be posted once. Instead of re-posting a quality book, maybe in different formats or on a different host, they dig up some old Harlequins or whatever to try to get their Filesonic money. I haven't noticed a VIP member system at this site, are you referring to the other site? If so, being a VIP member at that site, I can attest that it's not a license to do anything you feel like.

Above all try not to let these people get to you too much. Don't become jaded or despondent. This WILL work out with time. I enjoy your releases too much to have you give up because of a few bad apples.

[Bohica60]

The biggest thing is for the Mods to step in. If the posts don't meet the guidelines they can be deleted and the user warned, then banned if they don't comply.

The Mods here DO step in and do these things, but they are vastly outnumbered by the amount of people posting here.

I am one of those users as I'm not going to post releases here until I understand the process well enough to do it as right as possible.

GREAT! (Seriously!) If more people would do this first, there would be no real need to even mention this.
(HINT: The two links provided in my original post will get you 99% of the way there.)

One possible cause of this is the restriction here of only allowing a title to be posted once. Instead of re-posting a quality book, maybe in different formats or on a different host, they dig up some old Harlequins or whatever to try to get their Filesonic money.

They CAN post a book in a different format here. It just has to be done as a mirror (think add-on) to the original post of that particular book. If everyone was allowed to post a separate release for every format of a book, it would end up making the site just like you described earlier about "having to sort through a batch of old romances that didn't cut the mustard even when they were first released" to find the book you ARE looking for.

I haven't noticed a VIP member system at this site, are you referring to the other site? If so, being a VIP member at that site, I can attest that it's not a license to do anything you feel like.

Nope, I'm talking about this site. For more info on the membership types, check out this topic: Usergroups

[merry60]

It seems like some people just get a membership here so that they can start what I call "slam posting.' They just post whatever they want, however they want, whereever they want, irregardless of whether it has already been posted or not. As fast as they can possibly post them.

It always comes back to the same point we've discussed before: until this "breed of listers" (to borrow a friend's epithet ) came along, the main interest of posters was sharing, theirs is money. You know very well that this is the one and only reason for the "slam posting", we are just one of many sites in which they do the same. Only our ebook section is bigger and better, of course they want to post here!

But I believe a waiting period wouldn't solve anything, these posters would spam all sections until they get their required X posts... and then they'd start uploading their books in the same manner. We would just have more 'thank you' and other unnecessary posts to delete before they reach their real goal.
Besides, why should the site change its friendly style where posters are welcome because of just a few?

One possible cause of this is the restriction here of only allowing a title to be posted once. Instead of re-posting a quality book, maybe in different formats or on a different host, they dig up some old Harlequins or whatever to try to get their Filesonic money.

I don't think the restriction is a cause. On the contrary, I think it prevents them from re-posting each and every available book just because they can: numbers is what's important for them, not quality.... and digging up old Harlequins they would anyway.

Just like Bohica said, re-posting a quality book is always possible by adding mirrors to the original post. We just reached 25.000 posts with our no-double-posts policy, I can only imagine the chaos our section would become without the rule. I truly believe our users appreciate it.

Above all try not to let these people get to you too much. Don't become jaded or despondent. This WILL work out with time. I enjoy your releases too much to have you give up because of a few bad apples.

Exactly!!

Thank you both, really interesting

merry

[Bohica60]

But I believe a waiting period wouldn't solve anything, these posters would spam all sections until they get their required X posts... and then they'd start uploading their books in the same manner. We would just have more 'thank you' and other unnecessary posts to delete before they reach their real goal.

Hmm, good point, merry. I hadn't thought of that! Considering their previous actions, it's almost certain that this is what WOULD take place.

[he11ion]

Here are a few of the issues I have found with listing here, that effects both the quality of available releases and issues that I have/am experiencing.

Fact - Mirror: I have an extremely limited download capacity; however feel that if I access or utilize a site [in my case two] there is a certain obligation to contribute in some small capacity, when possible. In this case it consisted of a 15 book series that in line with the forum rules I split into two separate links. A mobi link was inserted followed by a Mirror link of the same books in epub format. However, this was not acceptable. This forum requested a mirror to the original mobi only, sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face or taking things to the extreme.

Fact - Poor quality releases: How many times do you see a brilliantly formatted post with terribly formatted releases? For example, it is common to find a series of releases that are in such poor shape that deletion is the best option, however the poster received their 30 wrz and I assume is quite content with that. Now lets say I had the same series in v5.0 or spent 100 hours correcting all of the scan and formatting issues. I cannot start a new thread [double posting], and for all that work or money spent I would receive exactly 3wrz for adding a mirror!. Further on this issue many many people download these poorly formatted/transcribed editions and miss out on those that were not listed due to the aforementioned. Therefore, as I see it, the promoting and upholding of the single release rule, that this forum seems adamant in protecting in entirety, without exception or without discretion, works effectively against the whole.

Fact - Links to previous listings: If I post a series of say 15 books (grinz), and discover that three of the books in that series have been individually listed. However, I find two of these links are dead and the others formatting does not compare. As a lister and adhering to the RULES, I must waste your time and frustrate you by refraining to make available to you the entire series. I must list only the new releases and provide links to the deleted and sub standard. If I choose to list the entire series, then it is placed in the collection bin to be entirely overlooked. What can I say, I have your best interests at heart really, but I must list dead links, how sad. This in turn, forces people to source other editions from alternative sites, which they may or may not feel obligated to contribute to in the future or might better suit their needs, maybe it was worth the frustration, inconvenience or hassle.

Just a little trivia concerning this post: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=237557
I received an email outlining some of the above that included an entire paragraph on the use of an additional line with the “Download Link”

Fact - Pedantic: Does this forum understand the meaning of Pedantic? And/or the consequences of such an attitude? It is realistic to suppose that it equates to future contribution zero!!!

I am not angry, peeved or frustrated as the solution is simply not to waste my time in the future. I genuinely like many of the contributors and moderators and am not pointing a finger at any one individual, rather addressing issues with the system.

Oh and its lovely to see you here "hmorphone"

[Bohica60]

Fact - Links to previous listings: If I post a series of say 15 books (grinz), and discover that three of the books in that series have been individually listed. However, I find two of these links are dead and the others formatting does not compare. As a lister and adhering to the RULES, I must waste your time and frustrate you by refraining to make available to you the entire series. I must list only the new releases and provide links to the deleted and sub standard. If I choose to list the entire series, then it is placed in the collection bin to be entirely overlooked. What can I say, I have your best interests at heart really, but I must list dead links, how sad. This in turn, forces people to source other editions from alternative sites, which they may or may not feel obligated to contribute to in the future or might better suit their needs, maybe it was worth the frustration, inconvenience or hassle.

I know EXACTLY what you mean with this, because I ran into the same EXACT situation with one of my posts. I had a set of RETAIL quality books in a series that I wanted to post.

Unfortunately, one book in the series had been previously posted - by itself. And, to top it off, the book that WAS posted was the same version that had been floating around various forums for some time. This book was known for having extra characters randomly inserted in the text and had several places where whole chunks of the text were missing completely!

So, here's what I did. I posted the set of 'good' books that I had, minus the one that had already been released. Then, I added a link to that 'bad' file. Next, I went to the 'bad' book post and posted a mirror of the 'bad' book, but with my RETAIL copy. Then I added (in the same message post) a link back to my own post with the rest of the 'good' books in the series.

Maybe not the BEST solution, but at least this way I could share the whole set of 'good' books without leaving people hanging because of the 'bad' copy of one of them.

[merry60]

Fact - Mirror: I have an extremely limited download capacity; however feel that if I access or utilize a site [in my case two] there is a certain obligation to contribute in some small capacity, when possible. In this case it consisted of a 15 book series that in line with the forum rules I split into two separate links. A mobi link was inserted followed by a Mirror link of the same books in epub format. However, this was not acceptable. This forum requested a mirror to the original mobi only, sort of cutting off your nose to spite your face or taking things to the extreme.

We have implemented a mirror rule to make the downloading of files from certain hosts easier for users like you. There can't be a double standard when applying the rule.

Fact - Poor quality releases: How many times do you see a brilliantly formatted post with terribly formatted releases? For example, it is common to find a series of releases that are in such poor shape that deletion is the best option, however the poster received their 30 wrz and I assume is quite content with that. Now lets say I had the same series in v5.0 or spent 100 hours correcting all of the scan and formatting issues. I cannot start a new thread [double posting], and for all that work or money spent I would receive exactly 3wrz for adding a mirror!. Further on this issue many many people download these poorly formatted/transcribed editions and miss out on those that were not listed due to the aforementioned. Therefore, as I see it, the promoting and upholding of the single release rule, that this forum seems adamant in protecting in entirety, without exception or without discretion, works effectively against the whole.

If you have the best interest of the site and its users at heart, you post a mirror and state your claim about the quality of the files quite clearly in your reply. Maybe we'll get posters to start being more concious about this fact, since not all seem to be.
But not protecting the double post rule 'in entirety, without exception or without discretion' would open the door to more and bigger problems than we already have with some posters.

Fact - Links to previous listings: If I post a series of say 15 books (grinz), and discover that three of the books in that series have been individually listed. However, I find two of these links are dead and the others formatting does not compare. As a lister and adhering to the RULES, I must waste your time and frustrate you by refraining to make available to you the entire series. I must list only the new releases and provide links to the deleted and sub standard.

Yes, you do. See my reply to this issue here: viewtopic.php?f=1147&t=237518

Just a little trivia concerning this post: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=237557
I received an email outlining some of the above that included an entire paragraph on the use of an additional line with the “Download Link”

My pm outlined more than that, the additional line was just one of the things to correct in that post. We have posting rules that we must follow, just like posters do in other sites. We ask for Name of book by Name of author + formats to be included in the Subject line, while other sites ask for Name of author dash Name of book dash formats dash size of file dash File Host. Your post is kicked out if it doesn't comply.
We ask for you to add information into the spaces given by default, already bolded and underlined, including the Download Instructions where you simply add a link. In other sites you do it all, including the BOLD and the COLOUR of the whole text and the uploading of a 'Download' button, apart from the link, of course. Your post is either edited by a mod or kicked out if it doesn't comply. How different is that?

The only issue that really worries me is the bad quality of the files uploaded, so if you find a way to correct that without stepping on somebody else's rights, please feel free to share! I, for one, will be eternally grateful.

Thanks a lot,
merry

[hmorphone]

Uh oh Hellion!
Look's like Merry's done her detective work and figured out what other "after hours club" we hang out at.
I'm still trying to bolster my courage to attempt a release post.
I think I'll try it, after studying Bohica's instructions, soon.
I'm not crazy about not being able to post a 4 book set in its entirety because #3 is already up,
but I also see (what Merry is pointing out) that you can't give widespread exceptions to the rules, as then the rules themselves fall apart.

Hmmm..., solutions, solutions, which is the perfect one?

[he11ion]

ROFLMAO..... Love that one hmorphone.... She see's all....

Merry's think tank has been hard at work.... Come on Merry it was a good tanti!!!

Yes, yes I understand!!!... The wooden spoon is back in the draw. Although when you are in the middle of a rave, common sense can slide on by. Oh and thank you for the thumbs up Bohica, sits well with my more rational twin

Love Hell

[womble]

Uh oh Hellion!
Look's like Merry's done her detective work and figured out what other "after hours club" we hang out at.
I'm still trying to bolster my courage to attempt a release post.
I think I'll try it, after studying Bohica's instructions, soon.
I'm not crazy about not being able to post a 4 book set in its entirety because #3 is already up,
but I also see (what Merry is pointing out) that you can't give widespread exceptions to the rules, as then the rules themselves fall apart.

Hmmm..., solutions, solutions, which is the perfect one?

I've had similar problems with my post as begining, just when I think I've got all the rules straight I find I've missed something else!! Poor mods need big thanks for their patience & I do think Merry 'sees all', I think you have to dip your toe in the water and go for it!

[he11ion]

Yes it is very much a learning curve although I still find (both uploading and downloading) the referal link to inactive links frustrating, more especially when the original lister is no where in sight.

I also very much like this new "Thumbs UP" thankyou that is now happening, would extending it to mirror releases be out of the question? It would just enable thanks to go to those who list a better version on a more accessible download site.

Cheers

[Bohica60]

I also very much like this new "Thumbs UP" thankyou that is now happening, would extending it to mirror releases be out of the question? It would just enable thanks to go to those who list a better version on a more accessible download site.

So far, I remain UN-impressed with this system. And I know this is going to just sound like 'sour grapes' on my part, but it isn't. I think the number of uploads is going to DECREASE greatly. Here's why. (I will use one of my latest releases as an example.)

The release is 6 books.
With the old style of 'rewards' that would = 5 WRZ$ per book, plus 3 for the mirror link for a total of 33 WRZ$

It has had 319 'look-sees',
It has been downloaded 64 times, and yet,
It has been 'Thanked' a grand total of 5 times!

Now you take a newer uploader, or an infrequent uploader, and they are more likely to look at that kind of thing and think "why even bother uploading then?" and end up uploading less or even, not at all.

Yes, I realize that, someday (maybe FAR in the future ) it MIGHT actually garner enough "Thanks" to equal, or surpass, that original 33 WRZ$, but most people are not going to be that patient.

It really doesn't bother me, cause I'm here more for the sharing aspect of it all, but some are going to be upset about not getting 'paid' for their releases. And I don't mean just the massive uploaders either.

These 'middle-ground' uploaders make up a much larger chunk of the pie, as far as uploading goes, than those of us who are here to share or those who do massive numbers of uploads.

And there is another thing too. Some believe that when they "Thank" a post the 1 WRZ$ that the original poster gets for that release comes out of THEIR WRZ$. NOT SO. The 1 WRZ$ comes from the site, just the same as if a Mod had awarded it. But until people start to realize this ....

[he11ion]

It has had 319 'look-sees',
It has been downloaded 64 times, and yet,
It has been 'Thanked' a grand total of 5 times!

There are a few of us here that are/were regulars on a site that does have the thankyou button, but without wrz incentive [so we have been consistant thanks givers ]. I think we are pretty used to those sort of stats, I have a post with 187 dowloads = 7 thankyou's and there are those that are familiar with the state of the originals. Its just the way of things.

I agree 100%, it will not be a get rich fast scheme, although I still have no idea how to spend wrz. Just a suggestion, and I know this could well be non workable. But what if they were to return to 5 wrz per release and have the thumbs up option for add ons and mirrors? Just a thought.

Cheers

[hmorphone]

While the new system isn't perfect, I have to agree with Hellion - I like it!

Bohica, I can understand your frustration. While I can agree that it may discourage a few posters, I'm not sure that it'll be that much of a problem in the long run. I agree that it will take time for a release to get fully "thanked," but I think it'll work. The muti-book releases are going to be the trickiest, but over time I think they may pull in the biggest amount of thanks too.

Like Hellion, I'm used to a similar system that actually had no reward involved. I got angry on occasion because, as you said, even when there was no WRZ involved, you could often have 1 thanks to every 5 to 10 downloads. Ebook readers, while you would expect a higher standard, seem to include as many disappointing types of people as other groups.

I like the idea of extending the thanks to mirrors/add ons, but I have my doubts as to whether it is feasible for the forum to set that up.

Hellion, the only thing I've found so far to use WRZ on is to reward ebook request fillers, but that does make'em somewhat valuable in my book. It sure beats using them on sports bets!

Bohica, you look like you've got enough WRZ to get by for a little bit , but I understand... It's not really the WRZ, it's the gesture behind it - the real thanks.

The only thing I can see to do, is to somehow make the message more obvious to the rest of the users that the WRZ does not come out of their pocket. I do feel that would help things along...