[wormybooks]

Tech, formats, licensing, drm and dedrm, legitimate distribution,non legitimate distribution, and culture around books and publishing have changed so much in the last 20 years that it's getting hard for me to keep up. My thesis in the 90's was about the potential to change publishing using the internet before all of this happened. I got everything I postulated right but it has gone so much farther than I saw at the same time. The one thing I didn't see coming is amazon breaking the mold to give indie authors so much power and then once they consolidated the majority of the market lowering the boom on them and becoming worse than the old publishing industry.
There is still ways it is better than before..Actually all of it is better than before with anyone able to publish cost effectively now, but the social control and eroding of authors profits that amazon has imposed is really concerning as well as the gradual locking down of the technology to enforce their market control.

The number of really popular authors that published socially unacceptable content that are now gone from amazon just because someone arbitrarily said so is alarming. On the other side is the arbitrary lowering of the boom on customers and stealing of their purchases if their account is banned, with no recourse unless they become public enough to be a PR issue.

My failure in looking ahead was remembering people will be people and that bureaucracies always grow and crush those subject to them.

[Anonyma'am]

"The number of really popular authors that published socially unacceptable content that are now gone from amazon just because someone arbitrarily said so is alarming."

I have to take exception to this statement. The complaints are not always arbitrary. Amazon reviews every complaint and not all demands for removal are acted upon.
Amazon is, at its base, a store. It is not required to carry every book by every author from every publisher. The "socially unacceptable" books are still available, just less convenient to purchase perhaps. Use your google finger to discover more of them and buy them if you wish.
On a similar note, some authors use Amazon and reader magnets for initial exposure.

[NovaPhoenix]

On a similar note, some authors use Amazon and reader magnets for initial exposure.

You're right, but it is also true that some established authors complain about Amazon's policies. I must say that for me, it was upsetting to find out the extent of the manipulation. Someone posted a compelling and informative briefing by Cory Doctorow here: viewtopic.php?p=9690164#9690164

[wormybooks]

Yeah... stuff that struck me as raw I found from really popular authors that were probably making a lot of money as in 100,000 of thousands of dollars a month on 100's of books. I know that when they got booted and moved over and kept publishing through their website and patreon and they would get as much as 60,000 to 100,000 pre-sales for each kickstarter on each new book in a mater of days to a week. Patreons numbers not their self reported ones. That, that many people followed them off of amazon and were paying for their books blew me away. I read them on KU and couldn't hang to buy all their books so haven't really read them much. What strikes me is that this had to be someone that was making bank on amazon. I would bet that they alone got a nice chunk of KU every month. They sued amazon and after a year of expense the upshot was they lost not because if I remember right that amazon showed they broke terms of service but that the contract allowed amazon to remove them just because they wanted to, Judge told them they were right but contractually it didn't matter and he ruled for amazon. So when I see stuff like that and people like Cory Doctorow who is really respected both in regular and indie publishing for many years showing how stuff really works then yes I will go with amazon now sucks ethically like traditional publishing sucks. Slightly different suck maybe but it comes down to profiting outside the rules they them selves say are there by making sure only they have full transparency. For the authors it's a matter of trust and hope. As long as they leave the rules deliberately vague so they can't be seen breaking a contract or implied contract that might be enforced in court they can basically do what they want.

Now... being fair there are a lot of people/authors/publishing houses that have manipulated the shit out of the system and yes should be kicked. That whole transparency thing really hurts because if your not amazon you have no idea if they are telling the truth. Honestly sometimes I wonder if sometimes they don't even know what's going on and the " algorithm flags and removes someone" and other than the author no one really notices and depending on the authors ability to get hold of someone that can fix it or is even willing to take the time to fix it, maybe they just cease to exit as far as amazon is aware.

I see problems in policy and actions that look very unethical but legal in amazons actions
I see both a complex technology managing stuff outside of view of anyone including amazon
I see a bureaucracy of I don't care
I see individuals inside the amazon system that make arbitrary choices based on their world views or the world views of people that complain to them about authors subject matter.
I see a system with so many authors and books that even if they cared they probably don't have enough people working in the publishing division to handle issues that come up in any sort of reasonable time frame.

once you add all that up.. you get Amazon!

[wormybooks]

I've re-read some of my posts lately and feel as if I am sounding more and more anti business and anti free market which is sad as I'm the opposite of that. However I'm not for capitalism which is a very much regulated sort of business. Not regulated in favor of the customer for the most part but regulated to enforce barriers to entry in the market place to protect the bigger companies strangle hold. Regulated to make it hard for customers to protect their rights while doing business with the companies.

I guess I'm old school, I grew up reading Doc E.E. Smith and Heinlein where free market was king but was described as Free Market done with Enlightened Self Interest. Every business is in it for them selves but should behave in an enlightened manner and to make sure that everyone was treated fairly and no one is taken advantage of. Which is something that some of the founding fathers said needed to happen if free trade/capitalism would work. They saw the dangers of doing exactly what we have done here in the US and their description of the dangers was spot on. Did you know that early in our national history it was illegal to have a company as we know it now. They thought the concept of limited liability abhorrent. A central bank such as we now have? dangerous? Banks able to behave how they do now would have been illegal. Income tax and a federal IRS.. I can see them shudder.. well in fairness they would shudder over pretty much every bureaucracy we have built at the federal level and spit at the existing congress for giving away the control they built into the system to protect us from laws being made outside of the legislature.

lol.. Don't split the topic again I think this fits in with the amazon/publishing conversation well.