[OldK7]

Hi, I have read some Shakespeare in my native tongue, but I'm always told (and I tend to agree) that if you haven't read it in the original, in a way it is as if you haven't read it at all...

So, I decided to give it a try and went for 'Romeo and Juliet'. The thing is that right off the bat I started thinking that the English in my version was far too modern... I've recently finished with Eddinson's "the worm ouroboros" and the thing is written in Elizabethan english (or Jacobean, I really don't know), so I was expecting Shakespeare to be pretty much the same. Ok, after deciding that my version wasn't right I went to amazon and to my complete surprise all I could find were versions with an "even more modern english"...

I went to Google and started looking for the "original" thing and was yet again surprised when I found out that the version I had seemed to be in the original... At some point I found something different, something that seemed more archaic, but only on a couple websites... What I could not find was an ebook.

Just so you guys know what I mean.

My version: The other stuff

Chorus. Two households, both alike in dignity,........................ Two housholds both alike in dignitie,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene, ........................ (Infaire Verona where we lay our Scene)
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,° ........................ From auncient grudge, breake to new mutinie,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean......................... Where ciuill bloud makes ciuill hand uncleane
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes ........................ From forth the fatall loynes of these two soes,
A pair of star-crossed° lovers take their life;........................ A paire of starre-crost louers, take their life:
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows ........................ Whose misaduentur’d pittious overthrowes,
Doth with their death bury their parents’ strife....................... Doth with their death burie their Parents strife.
The fearful passage of their death-marked love,...................... The ferafull passage of their death-markt loue,
And the continuance of their parents’ rage,........................ And the continuance of their Parents rage:
Which, but their children’s end, naught could... / ........................ Which but their childrens end nought could remove:...

...Gregorie, on my word weele not carrie Coles. ........................ / ...Gregory, on my word, we’ll not carry coals.°



So, at this point I'm extremely confused... When people say we should read Shakespeare in the original what do they mean? A version such as I have or this other more archaic one? And how did he really write it?

Anyway, if anyone can help me clarify these questions I'll extremely grateful, at this point I don't even know what version I should be looking for.

Thanks!

[GrendelRex]

There are facsimile versions of his First Folio from 1623 on-line. Look here:

http://archive.org/search.php?query=first%20folio%20Shakespeare

If they fit what you're looking for, most of them can be downloaded as Ebooks in several formats.

[jaysee]

So, at this point I'm extremely confused... When people say we should read Shakespeare in the original what do they mean? A version such as I have or this other more archaic one? And how did he really write it?

Anyway, if anyone can help me clarify these questions I'll extremely grateful, at this point I don't even know what version I should be looking for.

Thanks!

Depends on the context of "the original". It could mean reading it in the style of English that it was written in, by Shakespeare during his lifetime (text on the right in your example) or the modernised version of the text that has not been converted into Modern English (text on the right in your example). By Modern English I mean this:

The question is: is it better to be alive or dead? Is it nobler to put up with all the nasty things that luck throws your way, or to fight against all those troubles by simply putting an end to them once and for all? Dying, sleeping—that’s all dying is—a sleep that ends all the heartache and shocks that life on earth gives us—that’s an achievement to wish for. To die, to sleep—to sleep, maybe to dream. Ah, but there’s the catch: in death’s sleep who knows what kind of dreams might come, after we’ve put the noise and commotion of life behind us. That’s certainly something to worry about. That’s the consideration that makes us stretch out our sufferings so long.

as opposed to this:

To be, or not to be? That is the question—
Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And, by opposing, end them? To die, to sleep—
No more—and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to—’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished! To die, to sleep.
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there’s the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There’s the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.

Does that make sense?

[OldK7]

There are facsimile versions of his First Folio from 1623 on-line. Look here:

http://archive.org/search.php?query=first%20folio%20Shakespeare

If they fit what you're looking for, most of them can be downloaded as Ebooks in several formats.

Thank you very much for the links

Does that make sense?

It does! Awesome, now I have it perfectly clear in my head! Thanks!


Again, thank you both very much for helping me out in this matter.

k

[jaysee]

Does that make sense?

It does! Awesome, now I have it perfectly clear in my head! Thanks!


Again, thank you both very much for helping me out in this matter.

k

Always welcome!

[sherlockx]

Could I suggest Kthulu7 that you do not worry too much about the different spelling of words between the original Shakespeare text and the current spelling.
There never has been up until say 1755 a definitive spelling of English words and it was only the increase of printed books and the availability of school education that led to people wanting dictionaries.
Samuel Johnson was a revolutionary in publishing his dictionary and many disagreed with it.
If you want to have fun try reading Beowulf or Canterbury tales in the original.I can just about do it without having to look up too many words.

[OldK7]

Ok, thank you very much for the advice Sherlockx!

And yes I got an edition with the modern spelling spelling indeed, the signet classics one to be precise (R&J). And thanks for the history lesson as well

Cheers!

[jaysee]

Could I suggest Kthulu7 that you do not worry too much about the different spelling of words between the original Shakespeare text and the current spelling.
There never has been up until say 1755 a definitive spelling of English words and it was only the increase of printed books and the availability of school education that led to people wanting dictionaries.
Samuel Johnson was a revolutionary in publishing his dictionary and many disagreed with it.
If you want to have fun try reading Beowulf or Canterbury tales in the original.I can just about do it without having to look up too many words.

Canterbury Tales.... :vom: ...... school days re-revisited.

[profprofessorson]

For a first exposure to a Shakespearean play, may I also suggest listening to it? One birthday a few years ago I treated myself to the Arkangel Shakespeare audio series and I love it. When done by actors that know how to do it, the Elizabethan English is much more understandable than when reading it in text (even for a native speaker of English).

For a good scholarly volume, I recommend the Norton Complete Shakespeare. That's the one I used in university and it's still my go-to for reference.

For any play that you want detailed notes on, look for a standalone annotated version. Hamlet, for example, has tons of scholarship behind its many versions.

[OldK7]

For a first exposure to a Shakespearean play, may I also suggest listening to it? One birthday a few years ago I treated myself to the Arkangel Shakespeare audio series and I love it. When done by actors that know how to do it, the Elizabethan English is much more understandable than when reading it in text (even for a native speaker of English).

For a good scholarly volume, I recommend the Norton Complete Shakespeare. That's the one I used in university and it's still my go-to for reference.

For any play that you want detailed notes on, look for a standalone annotated version. Hamlet, for example, has tons of scholarship behind its many versions.

Nice, thanks for the tips. Got The Complete Arkangel William Shakespeare, will give it a try.

thx

For a first exposure to a Shakespearean play, may I also suggest listening to it? One birthday a few years ago I treated myself to the Arkangel Shakespeare audio series and I love it. When done by actors that know how to do it, the Elizabethan English is much more understandable than when reading it in text (even for a native speaker of English).

This is the best advice, if you can't get to see a quality Shakespeare performance, then this is a good option - if you aren't a native English speaker it can be the difference between trying to read Trainspotting (which I've failed to read beyond the first dozen or so pages) and watching the movie (which I've seen any number of times. Canterbury Tales has been mentioned, and my first exposure to that was a series of performances, including The Miller's Tale , and it was great. The trick with any of the trickier English texts (modern colloquial Scottish, original Shakepearean spelling or Chaucerian Middle English) is to read it outloud. Then again, as others have said, you don't need to worry about the difference between the modern and original spelling in Shakespeare, that is a product of the flexibility of spelling back then and when people say you should read the original, they usually mean the modern spelling as opposed to the simplified, plain English versions you can find out there.

You can also find some good Shakespeare performances on YouTube and I recommend Sir Ken's Twelfth Night, which I went to see when it was one and this is taken from the TV broadcast that was shown a little while later:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i3J17Jp0ag

It is a pretty straight production and one of the best there has been, I took my friend's son to a more modern version (still using the original text) recently and he loved it, but if you are trying to get to grips with the text, then the more traditional take on it is what you want. I'm not sure about the screenings where you are, but it'd also be an idea to keep an eye out for the National Theatre Live broadcasts as they are consistently excellent.

For texts, you won't get more than in the Delphi edition:

viewtopic.php?t=739437

If you are struggling with anything, you can compare it with the plain and simple English version:

viewtopic.php?t=748359

If you have any specific questions then ask away - like others here, I'm familiar with most of them, I've seen a performance of a decent percentage of the plays and have studied a number. So I'm sure between us we've got most of the plays covered.

[jaysee]

And if we're talking about film adaptations you can't go wrong with the stunning version of Hamlet by Ken Brannagh.

Just a beautifully shot and performed version of the Bard's best work.

[OldK7]

@Carcosa - Neat, thank you Carcosa! Got both books and will watch "Twelfth Night". Unfortunately there are no National Theatre Live broadcast in my area, like never:( I'll try to find good recordings of other plays though. Thanks for the advice!

Oh, and yes, as I watch/read/listen to the plays, I'll make sure to come back here and ask you guys more questions when they arise.

@jaysee - Yeah, I loved Brannagh's Hamlet as well:)

Again, thank you all for helping me out! We have collected great advice in here, I'm sure it will help many others as well:) thx!

@Carcosa - Neat, thank you Carcosa! Got both books and will watch "Twelfth Night". Unfortunately there are no National Theatre Live broadcast in my area, like never:( I'll try to find good recordings of other plays though. Thanks for the advice!

No problem.

Perhaps the best advice is the simplest: Don't worry too much about it. Most plays include complex layers of allusion (to the Classics or folklore/mythology), metaphor and subtext. No one gets everything first time around and I doubt I've got everything in even the ones I've studied. Just go with the flow and don't get hung up on any bits you don't understand, they can be enjoyed as pure comedy, tragedy, romance, etc. and you can go back and unpick it later, drilling down through the layers. You don't want to end up worrying about not understanding something, you might just miss the fun of the plays

[OldK7]

Ok, got it:)

I started with Romeo and Juliet, listened to the Arkangel audio and followed along the Signet Classics Edition, they use the same text. Was quite nice, really enjoyed it:) Must say that even though the Signet (penguin) ed is annotated, the annotations are pretty "meh", on the other hand the rest of their extra material was quite awesome (intros, notes on the source text, historical notes etc.). Ah, it could have been better formated to the kindle. All in all I had an excellent experience, and reading along with the audio worked quite nicely.

I'm trying to start with the stories I already know (by reading in portuguese), so I think It will be Hamlet next. What do you guys think?

Thanks again yall for your most excellent guidance:)

k