[auswombat]

I was browsing KickAss Torrents (kat.ph) for Gay MM ebooks, and noticed a lot of the authors were female. What do guys think about females writing novels about gay male relationships, gay-coming-of age etc. My view is that it must be quite difficult for women to understand how the gay male mind works.

I once read (I think it was in AfterElton) That over 70% of those who write and read MM romance are women. And it's not just there - if you look at "slash" fanfiction, you will find that from its beginning in fanzines in the 60's most of its authorship has been female. While this is relatively new in the West, in Japan this type of writing is much older, in fact there is an entire genre (some would say two genres) of manga and anime dealing with MM relationships which are directed at a female audience specifically (Yaoi or Shounen-ai). The anime/manga genre of MM stories aimed at gay men is called "bara", and is MUCH more recent and less profitable than its counterpart.
These books (both Western, and Japanese) are, as I said, specifically written not for gay men, but for straight women, and therefore tend to represent more what women would like MM relationships to be, than what they are in reality. Many of these books (not all, but many) read as if they have been written as straight romance books, and that the author then did a mass search/replace, changing all "she"s with "he"s etc. Indeed in many of them (as a friend of mine once described) one of the guys is always a small little guy looking to get dominated by a big hairy man-thing. This perhaps also explains the abundance of werewolves (and other man-beast transformers), and BDSM in this literature. In the Japanese literature mentioned above they actually have technical terminology for these roles - seme (the aggressive, butch, masterful guy - who is always physically larger) and uke (the effeminate, often emotional, submissive, and smaller guy - who is usually also younger).
Needless to say, this really has very little to do with how a gay relationship usually works in the real world.
That said, there are indeed some very good female author who manage to depict gay relationships realistically, but they are not the majority. That, I suppose, is way this literature is called MM romance, and not Gay romance.

[Weelee]

I agree with auswombat......it is rather strange that Females are the majority of Writers....they are writing for the female target "me thinks"

But I kinda figure they write what they want to see/be.....it's not much different to some person from L.A, Aussie or NZ writing about Sheiks who capture unwary Nannies and hold them for nefarious purposes in the middle of the desert (without a Global upheaval, media frenzy) lol....... Or even our Historical Writers....research can only take you so far and then it's up to the writers imagination.......... It's all Fiction and if it's well written; enjoyable.

[Miss A]

I've often wondered how gay men view the novels. They are presumably the other 30% reading M/M.
Being of a practical nature, I have issues with MANY of the books both in M/M romance, and the even harder to find, Gay fiction. I've always assumed that most of the impracticality of the living situations/roles/whatever, in those stories have to do with the genre just recently gaining wide social acceptance. Like author's brains haven't caught up to the fact that the main "crisis" in the book COULD be something other than coming-out related.

I'm a relative newcomer to the genre and I have found that the quality varies enormously.
I doubt that accuracy is what the writer is trying to achieve in most cases.
This is based on the 300+ stories I have read, and I may be biased due to story selection.
Most are just a short diversion, and are probably not meant to be anything more.

There are a few that really stand out for me:
Clear Water by Amy Lane
The Dark Horse series by Kate Sherwood
Tigers & Devils by Sean Kennedy
The Bear, Otter & Kid series by TJ Klune

Only the first book in the last series is about coming out.

I like these because I found the characters and their relationships to be interesting and very believable. The sex less so.
I do tend to prefer "contemporary" to "paranormal", but maybe I haven't read a great "paranormal" story as yet (I have read some that I liked).

Maybe it's the reverse of how straight guys have a lesbian fantasy? But I think a lot of the F/F books aren't read by guys so it's an interesting thing.

[RavenT]

I don't find most het romance to be realistic, either, to be honest.

Growing up as gay kid in rural Texas, I devoured any and all MM fiction I could get my hands on whether it be slash fan fiction, yaoi, or MM romance books. Honestly, the difference between how a female and a male writes has less to do with their gender and more to do with their skills as a writer in the first place. I've read really good and unbelievably horrible books by both males and females that deal with MM relationships. But I really do have to give it up to all the women that do write the majority of the MM books because they gave something for me to enjoy reading that I could relate to and grow from. Most of the heterosexuals that I grew up with take for granted that they have loads of different types of media to consume that showcases people who share their sexual orientation. To put it simply, I don’t worry about a female not being able to fully convey the authentic homosexual male experience to paper as much as I’m grateful that somebody attempted to do so in the first place. Loads of kids and young people like me just want to feel vindicated and entertained with stories relevant to our lives.

Great Job well written TY

I like what you wrote. I am a middle age woman in an ethero relationship, and I adore MM romance (I tried to read FF romance but never got into it, not enough romance for my taste). I would like the world to be open gender, where consenting adults are respected whatever preferences they have and lgbt literature is a step in the right direction. The fact that so many women write MM romance is just a bonus. Women might not understand fully male homosexuality, but they have a better predisposition for the emotional side of things, which is probably why gay man tend to be often surrounded by their female friends.
I have joined the M/M group on Goodreads to interact with people that like MM romance, to meet virtually lots of very nice people with an open mind and a strong appetite for M/M romance, participate in writing challenges and all. I am not even the only old hag!!!
Check out this short novel https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25713242-impact-ripples, I wrote the prompt for "love is an open road challenge", Al and Clare wrote a beautiful short story which can be read free on the MM group page, just to get the feeling of things.

We now have an MM/LGBT Group on site here at Mobilism

[megkers]

I've read both good and bad books from both female and male mm authors. It just depends...

I have read lgbt books written by both men and women and if the book is well written then sometimes it's difficult to tell the gender of the author. I know in a lot of cases it is obvious if the author's name is Ann, Mary or Katherine but if we have K.J. or Jordan or Morgan we don't know for sure.

That said though, in the true style of professional authors as opposed to 'writers' good research will enable an excellent author to portray any topic. (just think of any of the classics from Twain to Austen to Asimov to Tolkien) Unfortunately in the MM romance genre there is a vast quantity of writers and novels/novellas but not much quality in novels.

Besides every human experience is different and so the portrayals of MCs who happen to be gay could be as varied as the protrayal of MCs who happen to be straight regardless of the gender of the author.After all I haven't heard anyone criticise J.K. Rowling for her portrayal of the young wizard in her coming of age masterpiece (and we all know she is neither a wizard nor a young man)

[auswombat]

spirited_soul makes a distinction between quality writing and otherwise, and bemoans the lack of quality MM writing out there. Actually, there is a great deal more than you might think. Just look at authors such as:

Andre Aciman, Jamie O'Neill, Joseph Hansen, Gore Vidal, Anthony McDonald, Matthew Stadler, Christopher Isherwood, Michael Lowenthal, Paul Monette, Christos Tsiolkas, Paul Russell, Christopher Rice, Keith Hale, Yukio Mishima, Thomas Mann, Alexander Chee, Mark Behr, James Purdy, Tom Spanbauer, Michael Cunningham, Felice Picano, Roger Peyrefitte, E. M. Forster, Jim Provenzano, Scott Heim, Angus Stewart, Dale Peck, Ben Monopoli, James Magruder, Shyam Selvadurai, John Fox, Alan Hollinghurst, David Levithan, to name just a few.

It has been said that female authors of MM books are often writing predominately for a female audience. Sometimes one might get the impression the author could turn a M/F book into a MM book by cutting and pasting names and genders, especially when writing about "girly" male protagonists. This is often the nature of the bodice-ripper genre.

It's true you don't have to be a murderer to write a good murder mystery, but you must do your research thoroughly. Can you imagine John Grisham writing one of his legal thrillers without properly researching the themes and issues of the novel?

There is but a small handful of female authors who write well about MM relationships, and they do that based on impeccable research. The standout in this area is Mary Renault, and you might add Patricia Nell Warren, and sometimes Anne Rice. Their books are more literary in nature, and therein lies the essential difference between good MM writing and trashy erotic fiction. Sadly, most of what is out there falls into the latter category, but there is still plenty of good MM writing to be found (and what a joy it is when it is found), invariably written by men, who have the DNA advantage to write more realistic MM literature.

auswombat I agree with your post wholeheartedly. I shall also seek out the authors you have named. Thank you.

[Carsallo]

sorry for reviving old topic. I'm a het woman writing gay fiction and fanfiction. But I don't specifically write for any gender or sexual orientation, and I don't write erotica. My characters are gay men, but they're more than that. They're not just sexy tool for hot smut scenes. And they're mostly inspired by real men, often gay, that I know in the real life.

[auswombat]

I omitted one excellent writer of quality MM fiction from my list of authors;

Andre Aciman, Jamie O'Neill, Joseph Hansen, Gore Vidal, Anthony McDonald, Matthew Stadler, Christopher Isherwood, Michael Lowenthal, Paul Monette, Christos Tsiolkas, Paul Russell, Christopher Rice, Keith Hale, Yukio Mishima, Thomas Mann, Alexander Chee, Mark Behr, James Purdy, Tom Spanbauer, Michael Cunningham, Felice Picano, Roger Peyrefitte, E. M. Forster, Jim Provenzano, Scott Heim, Angus Stewart, Dale Peck, Ben Monopoli, James Magruder, Shyam Selvadurai, John Fox, Alan Hollinghurst, David Levithan,

so I should add Benjamin Alire Saenz for his excellent "Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe". I should also add Paul Russell.